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“Do you feel me?” I’ve always had some strange attraction towards words – especially the hidden meaning behind them. It’s rarely been enough for me to just let them hang in the air without reflection or analysis. Do you feel me? is no exception. Why do people say that? Why do I say that? Why not just ask, “Do you understand what I mean?”
Today’s blog has been inspired by some new friends I made today: Terri, Di, Christianne, and Chloe. That’s four, count ‘em 4!, friends in twenty-four hours. That’s gotta be some kind of record. Uncovering these new friends has helped me better understand that question about Do you feel me? in a way that I don’t think could’ve been done otherwise. [By the way, Hi guys. (Hope I can call you ‘guys’ cause it’s kosher where I grew up). Thanks for all of the kind words; they helped.]
People want to be more than understood; they want to be felt. There is some legitimate nuance of meaning here. It might be best understood by contrasting the subtle differences between sympathy and empathy. For me, sympathy means you can visualize with great intensity the feelings and experiences of another; empathy means you have actually experienced and shared the feelings and experiences of another. It’s the difference between watching on television an exhausted Olympic marathoner desperately throw herself across the finish line, completely exsanguinated of energy, and actually running one yourself and having to care for your blistered feet and tattered carcass afterwards. On paper the definitions seem subtle, but in real life, they are painfully palpable.
A person who really feels you literally shares your pathos, those intensely deep feelings that encompass our joys and pains; our losses and gains; our ups and downs; our smiles and frowns. A person who feels you is also one who shares your passions – whether that be reading, writing, music or teaching. It could be the passion you feel when you warmly embrace your child or the passion you feel when you are tightly held by your significant other. If it is shared, it’s called compassion. Compassion literally means to share passion!
I think we all desire this kind of shared intimacy: empathy and compassion. We unconsciously seek it out, and we do so desperately when we feel alone and disheartened. Maybe that’s how I met my new friends? I wanted someone to feel me. And from what I read on their blogs, I felt that they might just have that capacity.
Can I get Biblical for a minute? I don’t do it much anymore because I feel so distant from God, but I’d like to give it a whirl for just a minute. Do you know why I’m a Christian (albeit backslidden)? I know there are a number of reasons I could give, but at the top of the list would be that God can feel me and I can touch Him. And that is only possible because of the Person of Jesus Christ.
“For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tested in every way as we are, yet without sin” (Heb 4:15). Jesus is that High Priest. The Greek word sumpatheo is translated sympathize but carries the force of empathize. It is a shared, fellow feeling. It is because Jesus can genuinely feel my pains and temptations that I am a Christian. A God that is so ethereal that He cannot touch me, nor be touched by me, offers little practical help or hope to me. I could find a deity like that in a number of other religions. Yes, an ethereal, impassible God like that might look good on theological/philosophical paper, but when life is painfully palpable, that “perfection” (if it could be construed that way) is utterly alienating, completely irrelevant, and almost certainly unconcerned with my needs. Doesn’t sound very loving, does it?
But God’s not like that. We know this because Jesus, God in flesh, is as palpable as the pain we experience. He, Himself, experienced this pain. He ran the marathon, and He felt the agonies of temptations and rejections, yet without sinning. Why do we create such an artificial ceiling between us and God? To be sure, God is holy and transcendent, and we have to be careful that we don’t, in self-deceptive pride, diminish His greatness, perfection and holiness in our minds (I think this is what Barth feared and reacted to accordingly). But if God was ever impassible, then Jesus Christ punctured holes into His floor/our ceiling of impassibility by becoming human. God can now be touched! In fact, it is the man, Christ Jesus who is continually making intercession on our behalf, precisely because He is so intimately acquainted with our pathos and shares our pains and passions. “For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, a man, Christ Jesus . . . Therefore He is always able to save those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them” (1 Tim 2:5; Heb 7:25).
And did I mention He is full compassion? And because He shares our passions, it moves Him to do many things – intercession and healing to name just a couple. Somehow we have created this rigid, emotionless God completely devoid of compassion. He never really responds to anything. He is just pure action; a self-absorbed unmoved mover. And if per chance He does respond, it is only because of faith or some other manipulative “blessing lever” we can pull. But that is not how the Bible depicts God, certainly not in the Person of Jesus. “Moved with compassion, Jesus touched their eyes. Immediately they could see, and they followed Him” (Matt
There’s something to this empathy and compassion thing. Old Testament prophets were able to tap into the pathos of the people through poetry, orations and other writings. They even illustrated these things by acting them out in dramatic ways at times. They did this because they wanted to correct social injustices and inequities, and because they knew that things like poetry and music can connect with people in a way that mere speech making cannot. The arts are many times subversive (literally, below the word). It is a way of injecting deep feeling into the hearts of people who otherwise would not receive anything. Today, music is a good example of this. It taps into our pathos. It moves our passions. And our passions move us. And when we share those passions – have compassion – a dynamic, potent force is generated that brings transformation. On a vertical dimension, we have that in Jesus. We have it in the Holy Spirit as He comes along side us and shares our burdens as the Parakletos. And on a horizontal plane, we have that in each other, as members of the same Body and through our shared experiences as humans. We can empathize and we can be compassionate. And through our passionate, subversive words – our poetry and stories – we can convey that life to people who desperately need it, and yet consciously are not willing to hear it. We can move beyond understanding someone’s needs and actually feel those needs.
Let me step away from the cyber-pulpit. Sorry, I feel a lot of passion about this subject. What I am trying to say is that I am grateful for a God who shares my passions, and I am grateful that He brought four new friends into my life to share those passions with me. Do you feel me?
42 comments:
Hi Nathan, I found you from Terri's blog, Listening Out Loud.
Oh, brother. I totally feel you. Your passion for the topic is so palpable in this post. I really feel the fire in you for this.
I recently experienced a side of religion that worshipped the cold God you described: the unmoved mover, a distant and exacting judge. That's not God at all. God is righteous, but you’re so right; the Scriptures portray a deity that is brimming over with compassion for His creation.
And it sounds as though you've already experienced it, but I want you to know that you've stepped into a very real, raw, & honest little community of bloggers. I don't lack for good friends I can really put my arms around, but these people get me. To use your words, they feel me. Sometimes when I can't seem to spit the words out, they're somehow able to know exactly what I mean & what I walk through at any given moment.
I echo Terri's thoughts from the comments on her own blog: I hope you stick around.
I FEEL YOU. Especially the part at the beginning about reaching out when we are in so desperate need of a friend to find someone who will be there to touch us back in return. I have been blogging for almost two years now, and those two years have seen their fair share of up and down seasons . . . and it is this blogging community that has reached out and held me in those places, whether up or down. I say that to encourage you: you are among friends here, people who can handle the real and the raw and the mess, but also the ethereal and the wondrous and the joyous.
I. Loved. Your. Explication. Of. Sympathy. Empathy. And. Compassion.
I put periods in there to emphasize how much I loved it. All three of those words have been significant to me in my journey over the past ten years (and what a crazy, mixed-up, but good and fitting journey it has been!), and I really appreciated hearing someone else echo what I thought might be the right distinction between sympathy and empathy all along. (Just had a blog conversation with a friend about this exact subject, too! Check out http://eclexia.wordpress.com/2007/12/02/compassion-and-empathy/ for a conversation it seems like you would probably be interested in joining.
Can I just say it is positively AMAZING that you churned this post out sometime within the past five hours??! Dude, you're, like, a genius or something, especially with words.
Nathan, I really look forward to hearing more about your journey as we go -- the journey forward because of where you are right now, and the journey that has led you to this place.
Oh man I feel you baby. I feel you like mad way down in my bones somewhere. You don't sound at all like a backslidden depressed guy at the end of your short rope anymore. What happened? I've only been talking with you for 24 hours but your voice sounds different. You slam-dunked the whole empathy-sympathy thing and you painted a God I recognize with so much passion I was saying "amen" out loud.
Sounds like you're plenty alive. I'm honored to be called your friend.
Kirsten,
Glad you came by, and I look forward to getting to know you; thanks for the good words.
Christianne,
That was a great link! Very insightful stuff there. It feels good to meet people who talk about things that interest me. Journey, is that a euphemism for long, arduous process? If it is, I'm glad I have found such good company.
Terri,
I'm not sure how much different my voice sounds since the last time I wrote, but at least it is nice to FEEL heard. Thank you for being there for me. By the way, you are mad crazy with those adjectives, lol, you got some East Coast in you?
Everyone,
If you get a chance, check out my brother Clayton's blog at:
www.warmclay.blogspot.com
He is the guy I allude to in my blog called We All Wanna Be Loved. He has something to say worth hearing. Thanks again everybody.
Also,
My friend Tammy, while she certainly doesn't claim to be a grammarian, can write her butt off. Her content is so good! She just started blogging last month. And she hasn't even put up all the good stuff yet. Hit her up at: http://www.tpoetspen.blogspot.com/
And I can't forget my good friend Andrea. She is mad deep. Check her out here: http://brightsunshiny22.blogspot.com/
I know I'm putting up way too many links, but that's all of my blogging friends -- I promise. Until I met all you, it's just been those three.
No east coast...i've lived in the twin cities my whole life. but i'm kind of immature. maybe that's what you're picking up on. where are you from anyway? your profile is all empty and naked.
Terri,
I would not call it immaturity. Youthfulness and culture-current would be better :)
Believe it or not, my early years were in the Midwest (IN), after that, I have been a nomadic creature in some ways. My accent is an admixture of the neutral Midwestern variety, with some east coast, and some relatively new southern draw (lol). I am living in TN right now, but plan to move out east soon.
Cool. I love that you're a wanderer. My hub and I want to wander all around the US and Western Europe in life, so I think I feel you there, bro. :)
Um, yeah, journey is totally a synonym for long, arduous process. Ha ha -- it's true, and I live like it's true, but I didn't realize it was really true that way until you asked. :)
Thanks for all the blog link love. I love it! Look forward to making some new friends in your friends.
I think you have a beautiful, kind, tender heart. Just wanted to say that in case you hadn't heard it recently.
And, I decided that since you are where you are right now, you also must be hecka brave to put yourself out there like that on Terri's blog. Now you're opening up like a walnut! (No idea where that metaphor came from, but just try to go with me on that one . . . )
More blogs to check out!! COOL!! I am coming across tons of terrific new ones, including yours.
I love too that given where you're at, that you put yourself out there as boldly as you did on Terri's blog. It's something I have such a hard time doing, especially when you're not totally sure how what you're saying will be received, so I can definitely appreciate what it takes to put yourself out there.
But yeah ... even though this is already out there, I want to be one more person who says it: your writing is both skilled and passionate, and I hope that being surrounded by like-minded folk inspire you like it has me. I can tell that you are someone with a lot to say & it's pretty clear that you've already been on a journey & through a long, arduous process ... & are continuing on one.
I feel like I'm blathering, but I really just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your comments on Terri's blog and the post here which set my laptop ablaze. You're adding so much already & if I may say so, I think you've got a growing fan club! ;o)
I feel you. I feel like you do. I devour your passion for words. In other words, I 8 it up!
Di,
I noticed you like Eva Cassidy and Sarah McLachlan. Nice!
I put something back over there just for you for such a time as this.
Di,
Songbird is a favorite. Thanks. I like a lot of her stuff.
Ohh, I lu-u-uv Eva Cassidy and Sarah McLachlan too. (My profile favorites are SO outdated!) And Songbird is just GORGEOUS.
Ditto. ;o)
Glad you all liked the more obvious first pick and now for something a bit less ubiquitous...and reminiscent of the story told of her leaving paper and crayons as a way of helping her constant stream of friends, visiting her at Johns Hopkins during her final stay, to express themselves to her. A beautiful soul inside out.
Ok now Nathan...when I first read your blog I was like "ok this is deep" (hi everyone by the way my name is Jomekia..yea it's mekia nathan)...anyway...everyone want's to be felt some way or the other...especially when you pour your heart and soul into something you've done or someone you have delt with...something told me to look up the definition of the word feel...many definitions came up but one stuck out to me...which was "undergo an emotional sensation" and then i looked up emotional because i wanted to get a lil deeper..(im analytical like that sometimes sorry) but anyway one definition was aroused: (of persons) excessively affected by emotion...why not have a want to be felt..lol..it's kind of pointless to go around saying meaningless things all day long...sometimes some words and phrases are ment to be felt..lol..ment to have emotion...i say and do things with emotion most of the time..i think its because of the things that I've been through in my life being that I'm only 26..i've been through more than any regular woman should go through in her lifetime..which is ok..b/c when God said It's finished all of that pain went along with it..but anyway...before i run on and on ..im an emotional person i cant help it..im just gonna end this comment...so yea nathan....that was deep..lol..
Nathan,
What can I say? In a lot of ways you are my soul mate, (in a brother kinda way). Boy! You guys are in deep conversations. I always knew that there were other life forms out there somewhere. All of you wrote comments that hit me in different ways, but I wanted to comment on Christianne's quote, speaking about herself and her circle of friends, she writes "people who handle the real and the raw". I didn't know that such a thing existed in the church anymore. In the early part of my "Jesus days" I thought being a good "Christian" means that you have perfected the art of pretense. As long as you can sew on a nicely taylored fig leaf, as Adam and Eve did, you were in the company of the perfected elite. I have never really been the domestic type, so for those of us who don't sew we just kinda got escorted to the back pew. I am the type person who lives to shock people into deeper thought. Everyone needs a jolt every now and again. Consequently I made a lot religious people very nervous because due to my lack of domestic talent it seemed that I was unable to properly assemble my robe of righteousness, and I was forever flashing those in formal attire, with my faults, sins, flaws, and other so-called unmentionables. So, for someone to say that we are able to handle the real and the raw was like someone pouring an ice cold glass of water for a parched hostage of desert living. (please don't judge me by my grammer it is horrible). I know what I want to convey I just don't have the proper ways to put it.
love your expression poet's pen! I'm definitely going to use that one "sorry rsvp-regrets only, I have absolutely no-[new fig leaf]-thing to wear!"
Tammy, I just have to say: wow. Whatever you may say about your grammar, your have a creativity of expression that communicates far more than perfected syntax, punctuation, spelling, or grammar ever could. I know that from experience -- I was one of those people who perfected punctuation, spelling, and grammar so that I could "have something to offer" that was nice and pretty, but I was all tied up in knots when it came to expressing my deep-down self, and especially not creatively. My journey has been one of letting that wild girl OUT!
I loved the images of sewing together the perfected fig leaves. Also stitching together the robe of righteousness. Also flashing those self-righteous smug bums.
So glad you're finding something fresh and desirable here for your spirit / soul / heart / whatever word most resonates with the deepest part of you. One thing that has been one of the greatest treasures to learn in my life so far is how much healing can happen on the insides of people when they are in safe community. That has been true in my own life and in the lives of others close to me. I hope that mimics what you begin to experience with a new band of friends like us.
I also want to say that I've been thinking a lot lately of the treacherous impact -- deeply treacherous impact -- this notion of hitting a high, perfected standard is on people's souls and hearts. It makes me angry. Wicked angry. Just last night, I began thinking that I think writing in defense of the dignity of human souls is really meant to be the theme of the book project I'm working on, and that gets me excited because I have so many memories and impressions from the world on this theme. I wonder what I'll remember and discover as I go?
Sorry -- didn't mean to ramble on my book! I really meant that paragraph to be about how much I get the indignation and rage that comes from being told that's the box we have to fit in, and then trying to fit into that box when it isn't right. We need to just Be Human. That's all we are called to be.
I must say I am impressed to see that Eva Cassidy's name keeps popping up as a favorite. Nathan turned me on to her music.....awesome stuff.
Just wanted to address some of Christianne's comments.....Well, first of all your insight is enlightening. It challenges my thoughts and makes me reflect more deeply on some of my words. This is a good challenge because religion, whether intentionally or ignorantly, sometimes desires to give birth to a new breed of robots. These would be people who have been programmed to spit out a "band aid" response to the trials and struggles of real people who have real issues. (Boy I am laying a lot on the line here) For example a few years ago I was seeing a counselor, and a misguided, but well meaning, friend said, "Why are you seeing a counselor, Jesus is my counselor".
While Jesus is refered to as a counselor in the book of Isaiah, I believe it is closed minded thinking that He does not use very human vessels to portray that aspect of His character, of course I am not unaware of the fact that Jesus can and will speak to us through His Spirit. I also know that people need people, unfortunately we do not always find friends in the church. We make aquaintences, those we hail as 'brother', or 'sister', but we will never remove our masks before them for fear of rejection. A few years ago my true brother, not just in reference, hit an obstacle in his life and he did not trust me, but I remember a comment he made, he said "I have found more close friends among people who do not claim to be a christian". At the time I only knew the surface of what he meant, until I too hit an impassable obstacle, and I too found people outside of the church to be more genuine than those so quick to call me 'sister'. These "band aid" responses are meant to make you feel better, but is powerless to scrape the cancer spreading throughout your system. It is not always the case that we have the answer that will take someones pain away, but that we have enough compassion to not strip away their dignity in the process of applying ointment to a wound. If someone is brave enough to allow someone to apply salve to their wound the very least we should do is to be respectfully gentle without the person having to wear a HANDLE WITH CARE, sign on their back. I relate well with you Nathan, and you know me, so you know that I FEEL YOU. Christianne from your comments I gather that you are the type of person who can relate to hurting people. The religious responses that I have refered to seem to not fly well with you, nor some of the people you call friend. From your words I can tell that when you are convinced about something you are a blazing fire of confrontation in defense of the weak. Thanks for the comments about my grammer issue this is a intimidating thing for me to be this open with people that I barely know, yet we sorta have kindred spirits. I welcome your comments about your book or whatever you have to say. I can't really express in words, actually I am rendered dumb, at the candid and open vulnerability that you were willing to pour out of your heart in response to my quote blog. I can't even define what I felt while reading those comments. That was a perfect example of what I meant when I said the worth of a man is measured by the weight of the words they speak. Maybe it could have been more clearly expressed this way...The worth of a man is measured by the weight of his passion, his inner longings and his hidden outpourings to God, of the person he desires to become and truthfully portray. You spoke in Spirit and in truth and that is the sum of it all. In short we change from glory to glory as we behold His image. I am really not sure how I fit in to that comment at this crossroads of my life, but your words made me question if God is really in Heaven holding out a measuring stick or am I the one who keeps on trying to force it into his grip.....points to ponder.
I must say hello to di, you are a new voice to me, just wanted to say hi
I love following the conversation here. Currently I am huddled up under a blanket on the couch, hoping I'm not getting sick, but reading this lightens my spirit immeasurably.
It's aamzing how recently and overwhelmingly I've come into contact with genuine, raw, & real Christians who don't think that holiness & right living comes from binding themselves to a list of rules, who are desperately after the heart of Jesus. If all Jesus was after was making us scared to death of hell, of making us into homogenous law-abiding puppets, I don't think He would have come, taken on the stink & filth of earth, taking on flesh and living with us for 33 years. It was a fierce & powerful love for His creation (us!!) that brought Him here. When anyone suggests otherwise (by their words or behavior), it makes me fiercely angry, but mostly sad that there are people out there who think He just wants us to assent to something intellectually instead of handing our broken & wounded selves over to Him, heart first: total & complete surrender, becoming enveloped in the heart of Yahweh Himself.
I can tell you all for sure that Christianne is one of those people who simply loves people -- you are all DEFINITELY correct on that point. :o) I have some kind of crazy love for that girl & being in relationship with her has improved my existence. She helps me to know Jesus better, mostly because she has no agenda of her own, steps out of God's way, and pours out His love to those she meets. Dangit, I'm going to start crying. ;o)
I love & appreciate all the voices here -- sorry if I haven't had a chance to visit you just yet ... the most recent post on my own blong explains why. :o) I just wanted to peep my head into this conversation, communicate that I am in agreement from the inside out, & that it's such a pleasure to "meet" you, to hear your voices, to have our paths intersect.
Blessings to all!
-kirsten
Nathan, my friend we are all hooked up on your blog. Kirsten I read your last entry, very interesting. I checked out your blog site. So if I have this straight you and Christianne must be pretty tight. From reading both of your writings and thoughts I gather that you are in agreement on issues. A true friend is the most precious gift that God can ever give us. I used to meditate on that alot. The greatest trust that God can ever pour upon us is when He trusts us with the heart of one of His own. That is a very deep investment that God sews into our lives, and it makes me weep if I pursue that thought too long. It is a wonderful and fearful thing to hold someones heart, (the essence of who they are, unmasked), it is not a thing that I take lightly.
I try to love honestly, listen intently, bleed freely, and most of all speak softly.
I think we're all beginning to feel each other. That makes my heart glad. Beautiful comments here guys.
We need another dude up in the mix though. Where is Clayton? I feel like I'm swimming in a sea of estrogen -- alone. Just kidding :)
Poor Nathan!! You crack me up!! I think I can empathize on some level because I am stuck in that sea of estrogen all the time. No escape!! :o)
Hi Tammy, you are right. Christianne are very close friends. We graduated from the same university about 7-1/2 years ago and reconnected through blogging about a year ago. I've never met anyone whose heartbeats so closely echo my own. I cannot think too long on it either; I don't know how I'm going to handle it when I go to visit her in a couple weeks!
Okay, you people have me crying over here, totally enveloped in love and astonishment. It's so weird to read other people's words about you in a public conversation! But it's also so humbling, and I can only say soli deo gloria (to God be the glory) because He made me for His purposes, He caused my life to fall apart about 10 years ago, and He has slowly and gently been restoring me back to the true heart He placed within me. Now I know with a fierce fire what is important to me for the heart of God, and Tammy, you are right: I will consume the opposition with that fire (hopefully God doing it through me and not me doing it in my own soul's power) out of love for human hearts and dignity.
Ahhhhh!!!!! I don't know how to hold everything I'm feeling inside of me and translate that into words. Again, I'm so humbled to know ALL OF YOU. I feel like I've been walking along in the dark for a long time, only to turn a corner and discover a whole roomful of friends. The friendships I have made through blogs in the past two years have become so important to me because of moving across the country and not having established a new real-world community yet here in Florida. Kirsten, your friendship to me is one of God's most precious gifts to me in my whole life, right up there with Jesus and Kirk and the closest among close people in my life. You have galloped into that position in my heart because of your own truth that you walk, the tender ministry of your words, the fierceness of your face before the Lord that does not look away from Him, and the way you think and feel (and get silly, too!). I THANK GOD BIG-TIME FOR KIRSTEN!!!
Tammy, I don't even know where to begin to respond to your words here. I feel like you have offered us an enormous amount of trust by revealing your struggle with traditional forms of Christianity and the kind of band-aid care that only inflicts more wounds in the process of itself.
I think most people are afraid of what they don't understand. I think a lot of people also don't know how to be in touch with the truth of their own hearts. We live so much out of our heads in Christianity, trying to slap verses onto everything. But if it doesn't reach the heart, the truth of who we are down deep, those verses are just what you said: a band-aid on some gaping, bleeding hole in our bodies.
Ouch, I'm sorry for that response from a friend who asked why you need a counselor when Jesus is their counselor. Ouch, ouch, ouch, and crap. Not only does that reveal how out-of-touch with the hard reality of life people can be, but it also has the effect of alienating the person on the receiving end of that kind of comment: so, what, are you saying that I'm so messed up that even Jesus can't heal me?
But I'm in total agreement with you that Jesus uses people to help us heal. I think it was the third time I was in counseling (and I've been through a lot of counseling, girl, in my days so far -- maybe six different counselors??) that I received something so profound. The counselor said that it is through relationship that we are broken, so it is through relationship that we must heal. Yes, we have a relationship with Jesus. But so many times our issues have to do with human-to-human relationships, ways that we have been harmed by people in our lives, and we need help learning to trust other people again with the fragile, vulnerable parts of ourselves. This counselor said that our relationship could be like a petri dish of learning how to do that because it was a totally safe environment where I could say anything. I learned a lot about speaking truth in those sessions because she could handle my truth and it didn't make her go away. Eventually, I started learning how to do that more in my real relationships in life.
So, yeah. I'm with you on how counseling can be life changing and something God uses in help for our healing.
Tammy, thank you so much for sharing all that you have here. Some of the sentiments you expressed are so beautiful that I barely know how to contain myself -- especially the parts about how moved you are that God would entrust us with the hearts of one of His own, and also that it is a wonderful and fearful thing to hold someone else's heart. I am so glad that is something that moves you, that you don't take lightly. It makes me feel like I can trust you with my real self, too. And it makes me believe that we have much in common and will be encouraged deeply by one another.
So glad to have met you, sister -- and when I say sister, I really mean it. I feel a kinship with you, too, and feel like I can throw my arm around your shoulder and look at life head-on side by side with you. I am willing to do this with you, just so you know, in case you needed to hear it straight like that.
Love to you.
PS: Nathan, yeah, call your boy on the phone. We can always use more perspective around here to keep sharpening our iron. Plus, I just don't want us girls scaring you away!! Especially since, you know, this is YOUR space and all.
Hi poet. you have a beautiful voice.
Hi Nathan. Strength for the journey man. You are making a difference for the Kingdom.
Now c'mon guys...it is dangerously safe here in a really good way! we want to hear you.
Just wondering what will it be like to have all the non-essential distinctions of gender and race and such removed some day?
To the group....I feel our connection is more than a happenstance internet hook up. There are some things that are too profound to be human hands alone.
Nathan looks like your candy idea went over well. Too bad we can't pass it around on line.
To the group: A little background on Nathan and I. I have known Nathan for what going on 8 years I guess. We went to church together for while. We were apart of a small tight knit group that eventually became a church. Neither of us attend anymore and we lost touch with each other for a few years. God suprized me by bringing Nathan full circle back into my life and this time our friendship is much more real. He is the closest friend that I have and he is about the only person
that has seen me without any masks. If there is any way that I can sum up Nathan in a few words I would say his deepest motto is keep it real. I know that is what attracted him to this group because he called me not long after you all began to hook up and said "Tammy you are going to like these people, they are real." I don't know any one thing that provokes him to wrath more than all the "get rich quick" church B.S. He is a good friend, we have been through some "stuff" together.
Di, you made a comment you said that it is dangerouly safe here. That is a very true statement. This is why I felt comfortable saying some of the things that I said. Christianne made a comment about trust as well.
Christianne, the things that you said were not band-aids. You said what you said with concern that is the key. I am sure that we have all been the victim of religion at some point is our lives. As for Nathan and I we live in the Bible belt, home of the almighty religious shrine. Trust me, it would not shock me if the town square does't take it to the next level and erect a golden calf in honor of the many denominational headquaters existing here. They could always engrave the inscription...Move over Jesus, we are paving the way to God one steeple, one denomination, and one convert at a time.
Christianne you made the statement "damn pharisees". I have met a lot of people who have been wounded by them. You said some things to me that hit home, concerning my lab experience. You said it sound like you have given up all the peices of what you thought was reality that you were holding in your hands. Yes, some things made my world fall apart, some things had to do with the things that I struggle with internally, not a day goes by that I don't feel like two people. I can't seem to "will" myself free. That was the explosion in my life. When God did not anwer a certain prayer that I prayed. The best analogy that I can give you is the wrestling of Jacab with God. That sums it up. I feel like I live that every day of my life and it sucks. It is a sore spot and sometimes I still get angry at God. I feel like Jacob everyday wrestling with God but He never reaches out and answers. I suppose Jacob would have been pissed too after wrestling all night and God never showed up. (I am getting more and more angry writing this). He had one night, imagine living almost everday of your life in that warfare and God never comes and changes your name, He never reaches out and touches your hip bone but you spend everyday, not walking with a limp but trying to walk upright with one leg. Now I know that (to use Nathan's studly term you just have to "man up") Of course he would never say that to anyone who have issues of the heart. That is just his silly phrase. But have went through a lot of junk trying to spiritually "man up" and still I am like Jacob and the angel, the difference is I am worn out. I have had someone that I hold in high regard tell to read the parable of the persistant widow and apply that to my situation. Well I tried that. I probably spent more time on long fasts than most people I know, I spent days at a time with my head in Bible, as far as living a holy life, I put myself trough much sufferings trying to weed out anything from me that might make me smell anything like the world. I am not saying all this as bragging, believe me, I am far cry from all of those things now. This is true...I would go to different churches, listen to different preachers, I would spend a few minutes and by the words of their mouth I would become smug and shut them out because I could tell by what they said that I was living a more holy life than they were. That is a very pharisee attitude, I know that. I was as goofed up as Paul when he said he was a Pharisee of Pharisees, and where did it get him? Running around killing Christians. I have not resorted to that yet, although I do think some well developed Pharisees, such as I was, could use a dose of reality. The whole point of my long winded walk down memory lane is to say that I am tired. I don't feel like being the peristant widow, and yet I can't explain those seemingly cut and dry parables that Jesus told. To be honest I don't think that the higharchy of the church world knows the answers either they just use them as tools to band-aid the problem in the lives of hurting people. In stead of just admitting outright that even though they may be a theologian they too find things that are hard to expalain. Instead they want to clear their throat, adjust there robe of righteousness and take that pious tone with those more ignorant and unlearned than they. Pardon my southern tone here.....it ain't nothing but a bunch of hogwash. You (Christianne) said we live so much out of our heads slapping scripture verses on everythng because we are not comfortable with what we don't understand or can't find a quick fix answer for. I know by the tone in your words that you have waded through the waters of a lot of hurt because pain is the insence of the broken alabaster bottle that we wash the feet of Jesus with.......that is my only comfort it is knowing that my pain is the oil and tears that wash the feet of Jesus. That song alabaster box is one of my favorite songs one line states "you don't know the cost of my alabaster box." God knows only God knows the depth of our tears and sorrow. I wanted to share a line in a poem that I have not yet finished but it was the voice of Jesus saying......I chose a beautiful rose for you my love, though it be covered in thorns. Surely time will teach you to embrace and cherish the pain that only thorns can bring. So, Christianne that is end of my book to you. This stuff has overloaded Nathan's blog site. I love you Nathan for many reasons, but thanks for keeping it real.
Kirsten, 7 and a half years long time to be seperated from someone and hook back up that is a God thing. I love it when God does that.
Guys I have sign off for a few days. I do not have internet access at home so I am "borrowing" the net from work. I am off work
until Friday. I work weekends....long hours but I am off all week so it works out great. I can say for sure that I will miss you all and look forward to long and lasting, most of all real friendships. Remember love honestly, listen intently, bleed freely, and speak softly.
I appreciate you Tammy, so much. And I appreciate everyone in our new family.
Wow Nathan, this has really exploded (to borrow Tammy's metaphor) in the last few days. Seems like there are a lot of us here...these people who have been hurt and disappointed by religion and who found God and community as an odd and beautiful result. I'm always to glad to find places that are this outrageously real and safe. Thanks everyone.
Terri,
Who said nothing good and beautiful can come from a big bang?
probably GB
Di,
You might be right :) I'm not much on that theory myself, even though I, at times, epitomize it.
I'm broken right now. I don't want people to feel me. I'm being selfish, immature, and self-destructive. When people feel me, when they understand my pain then I feel useless for still feeling this way. I just turned twenty and I wish I was in mid-life just so I could explain this crisis. I liked this blog, (even though I only read half of it... I can only take things even halfway about religion in small doses because my estrangement from God is taking its toll on me) it reminds me that I'm in the sort of funk that other people can help pull me out of as soon as I let them. I miss you too (Please believe me! I truly enjoyed the irony of if you won't pick up your phone at least call me and tell me why. I really do miss you I just suck all around at being a good friend right now... you can ask anyone...) Your new friends are great by the way, very thought provoking.
Andrea,
Take as long as you need. I'm not going anywhere.
And Andrea, we're broken together. God is going to fix us up though :)
I know you like irony, so I was being cute (is that ironic too?) just for you.
Yeah, these new pals of mine are kinda aight, huh? Don't tell 'em I said that though; don't want it goin to their collective heads.
And one more thing, I love Harpo, God knows I do. And I'll kill you dead before I let you or anybody go to another Broadway show without me.
Much Love . . .
Hi Tammy -- my apologies for not yet responding to your thoroughly honest and real comment yet. As I just shared back with you on my blog to your most recent comment about the car accident, this has been a tough few days for me and I have had few words. I hate it when that happens, but I'm trying to take encouragement from Kirsten's example of late and just give myself the grace not to be on top of the world right now. Trying to give myself permission to be quiet if that is what my soul needs. Especially when I saw that you would be offline for a few days; I hate that you made the effort to jump on the net at Nate's house only to find no response yet to your words.
Plainly put, they made me want to cry. They made me so aware that I have no answers for you, either, for why you are wrestling with God and getting no answers. Except to say that perhaps it really is like a failed science experiment in which he's just trying to wrest all the pieces from your hand so you can rest and fall back and just let his mercy minister all over you and you lay there and do nothing.
It makes me feel like I do when one of my good friends is going through something beyond explanation that brings a lot of pain. I wish with all my might that I was super-human and therefore endowed with the strength to take the pain away and provide the answers. But all I can do is sit with her in silence, wrap my arms around her, cry with her, and ask God to show up in whatever nonsensical thing he is trying to do.
You talk about feeling divided into two people each and every day and that you cannot will that feeling away. God, do I know that feeling well (though likely for totally different reasons and in totally different ways, since our circumstances are likely markedly different). It's like trying to integrate some new truth that is like gold into an old way of being that is so ingrained in you that it's like second nature and won't stamp out. Forever, the residue of that old way is stained inside you, altering the way you want to learn to relate to God and his world and yourself, and no amount of willing will make that stain come clean. And yet there is this new way, this grace way, this soft and restful way. Learning to live THERE, instead of the other place, is one of the hardest things to do in the world, at least in my world.
To the extent that I understand and am able, I feel you, sister.
PS: If you ever want to talk more, beyond the scope of blogland, then you can find my e-mail address under my profile page by clicking on my hyperlinked name at the beginning of this comment. Nate also has my e-mail address. I meant to mention this to you on my last comment here but then chickened out for fear of being too forward. But you can take it or leave it. :)
Love you, sweet.
hey drea, i'm with christianne: mostly just aware that I don't have a ton of answers for you and you weren't really asking for them anyway. when i have gone through similar things in my life i was pretty much unable to take in anything, so i really get what you're saying here. no pressure to be a certain way here. just incarnational presence and acceptance.
Nathan- I don’t know how I missed this post…I feel like I’m way too late, but let me chime in that I feel ya. You are absolutely right that we all want to be understood. We’re so hungry to be seen and heard. I’m constantly surprised by all the new connections I’m making here.
Chloe,
I'm surprised too. But it is a pleasant surprise. Glad you stopped by. Hope to see you more often.
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